Our Daughter Knows

A couple of years ago, my wife and I were on a walk, talking about us being non-monogamous. We talked about hopes and fears. We talked along a path of “what then”. This is when you imagine something bad happening and ask “what then”, then follow that with another “what then” until you get to an end point. In this case, it was a discussion about being found-out. We both were and are personally comfortable with our status of non-monogamy, yet we’re aware of what others may think, and we’re not immune to the possible consequences of them discovering. 

We were raised in a VERY conservative community with VERY conservative messages incorporated into our consciousness from a young age. Over the last few years, I have used reason, logic and science to work though those. My wife has leaned more upon intuition and emotion to work through hers. We started in the same place, and we ended up the same place, but by very different processing methods. 

Because of our traditional appearance and background, we’ve established ourselves in our community and founded our social and professional lives on that old, conservative background—it’s what pays the bills. We have been concerned that if our colleagues discover our non-monogamous life that they may think, “Well, if they can have sex with other people, then maybe they can embezzle and cheat on their taxes too.” In time, they’d learn that these are non-sequiturs, but only if they stick around long enough to learn it first-hand.

Another reason (actually the biggest reason) for not coming out is because of our children. We taught them the same religious traditions in which we were raised. My wife and I didn’t become firmly non-monogamous until after our children’s values were instilled. Now that as a couple we’ve altered our lives, our children could interpret our change in many ways, most of which wouldn’t be easy on them. So we’ve chosen to keep silent on the issue—especially as we evolve ourselves. (Our children are now all over age 18.) 

I recently, convincingly found out that our daughter found my previous post and read it. Previous to that, we suspected that she knew. Over the past couple of years, she’s asked us questions to which we have told her it’s none of her business. We knew that she had strong suspicions, but we didn’t know on what she based them. (She is nosy. She can’t deny that.) I now know that she’s been reading this blog. She’s reading this. Hi daughter. Had I known this before, we would have not written much (or any) of what did, but it’s too late. Oh well. Parents often want their children to think well of them, but eventually parents fall from their lofty state. I think we’ve fallen further than most, or at least we were more explicit about documenting our exit from Eden. 

So, back to the “what then” conversation. When my wife and I talked about how she’d react if our children (in particular this child) found out, my wife calmly and firmly said, “I’d kill myself.” I stopped dead in my tracks, grabbed her by the wrist, and looked her in the eye as my mouth went dry. “You’re kidding, right?”. “No, I don’t think I could go on knowing that [she] knew.” I firmly stammered out, “Then we must stop immediately!” It turned into a long conversation that ended in her understanding the suicide wasn’t the solution, and that neither of us wanted to alter our behavior for feelings, but it did underscore the very deep concern that she had with that child confronting her about what we do. 

My wife has a very childlike heart and loves to live in a Disneyesque mindset. Our daughter is a natural “parent” and authority. She’s loving but judgey—just like me. She and I are way too similar. My wife complements and criticisms both me and our daughter when she says to either of us, “You two are so much alike.” So I completely understand my wife’s fear of our daughter’s judgment. From a values perspective, I know well how my daughter thinks. I was very similar when I was that age. I judged my own parents harshly for much less. I know how I would have felt if I’d discovered that my parents were doing what my wife and I do. I can only imagine what she thinks and how it must pain her soul. I wish I could assuage her of that pain.

So, where do we go from here dear daughter? First and always, we love you. And we invite you to keep loving us. Also, you know your mother well and you know how sensitive she is to you and how much she wants your acceptance and approval, so I ask that you consider timing and how much you feel a need to address these things with her. She has a tendency to take things hard for a while (see above). And as a peacemaker, she often obfuscates rather than deal head-on, so I don’t know how satisfying a conversation with her would be for you right now. If you need to yell at someone, yell at me. I’m here for you, and I will always love you.

Three-day Marathon

This has basically turned into Joe’s sex journal now.

Christy went to Denver for four nights to visit her aunt, so she said that I could play solo while she’s away. A few weeks ago, I joked that she’s she’d be gone four nights (five days) that I would like to see if she’d permit me having five dates. She agreed, but she probably thought I was joking. I wasn’t. 

As the date for her departure got closer, I was trying to arrange my dating adventures. I told Christy about my plans and she asked that I not have sex with anyone else on the same day that she comes home from her trip so that I’ll be ready to play with her. I of course agreed. So that left me with the option for four dates. I lined up dates with four women.

I’d met Shirley online a couple weeks prior. She started flirting with me and was very direct. She was very nervous about meeting, but loved sending me explicit sexual photos of herself, though she didn’t like showing her face much. (I did confirm that she was the woman in the photos.) She was very worried that I wasn’t going to be attracted to her when I met her. (She was putting a filter on the face photos she sent to make her look a bit prettier. She moved the date from the night that Christy left to the next morning, which would have had me having two dates on the same day. Shirley came to my home. Without a filter, she’s not someone I would normally have been attracted to, but she was enthusiastic and really into me. She basically begged me to fuck her. She was a lot of fun in bed and wanted me to do anything to her. She was the first woman other than Christy with whom I’ve had anal sex. It was a good time. She orgasmed a couple of times and actually I did also twice which really surprised me. Of course there was at least a 30 minute break between those two. It was a pleasant experience, but I don’t have plans to meet her again.

The next woman, Mira, whom I planned on meeting that same night for only a drink, no sex, had to cancel on me due to a last minute family emergency. (She showed me the new story and I saw it on her Facebook profile to know that she was telling the truth. )

Nelly was the next night. (I’d played with her a few months prior.) She came over, we had a little chit-chat and got busy. She’s my age, friendly, Latina, into me, and orgasms easily enough. (She likes being on top and rocking and sliding. Last time we played she almost snapped my penis in half. I actually got damaged that time. So. . .) I was a bit nervous about being hurt again, but it all went well. She got done at least once, and I did too. To prolong the experience, after the woman orgasms once, we take a break, talk and get something to drink (no alcohol), then we go again. I came during the second round. I held off during part one. 

Both women were here for less than two hours each. That’s the standard. Most women don’t want to stay longer than that, and at two hours, I check in via text with my wife. That’s our arrangement. — After Nelly left, I cleaned up: condom wrappers, water bottles, reoriented the tissue box and lube dispenser just as I had after the previous night, but where was that second condom? I know we’d used two. I had two wrappers, so there must be two condoms. I’d flushed the “full” condom, but where was the round-one condom. I was searching everywhere. And I HAD to find it because Melody was coming over the next night. It would be horrible if Melody found a recently used condom in the bedsheets. It look a lot of looking, but I found it plastered under the Kleenex box on the nightstand. Phew! 

The final night was Morry. She’s my new #2* (Christy is of course #1). I’d met Morry on Bumble about a month ago. We’re in the same industry, so she found an excuse to come to my work to meet me in person for about 20 minutes. Our second date was at a swanky bar where we talked for about 3 hours. This night was to be dinner and sex. Morry is high class: well-off, well-dressed, well-educated, fit, intelligent, and a bit intimidating. In may ways, she’s out of my league. I may appear to be “in her league”, but I’m just a man-child trying to fake it and only doing so with women who don’t know any better. Morry has two other girlfriends (one very serious) and another boyfriend. She likes dating a lot of people, and she’s very honest about it. — We met at the restaurant. She’s fancy. She knows wine. I know nothing about wine. We eat and she tells me more of her life story. We then come to my place. I undress her and we hit the bed—the same bed that I’ve had sex in with two other women on the two previous days. (I should say here that their names are not Shirley, Nelly, and Morry, but their names are all two syllables and they all rhyme. So I had to make a very conscience effort each time to be sure to call each by the correct name. They all have very similar hair style, bodies, and physiques. What I was doing was nuts. Seriously nuts.) Morry was the best dressed and most high-end, so I felt like I needed to be careful with her as I undressed her. Her bra and panties were VERY classy. I felt out-classed by her, and that I needed to ask permission with everything—which I do anyway as a matter of getting consent. I ask before going down on her, and I ask her what she wants. With Shirley, we had flirted a lot online prior to meeting, and with Nelly we’d played before, so I knew where to go with those two women. Morry and I hadn’t had much sex-talk prior to this, so this sexual experience was new territory for us. We started playing and about 10 minutes into it, I had a condom on and was on top thrusting. I warned her that if I kept going, I was going to cum. She told me to. — Normally I would have held off until round two, but given that I was tired from the previous two nights and was worried that I wasn’t going to be able to go strong in a round-two and that I really wanted to cum with Morry, I allowed myself to orgasm earlier that I should have. I thought she came also, but she later told me that she didn’t. — I went to the bathroom and cleaned up. We then laid in the bed naked and talked for a while. That’s what I do during the intermission. I then got hard again and we went for round two. Round two consisted of a lot action that went nowhere. I did all the work I could, but she didn’t cum. She actually did seem fine with it. She told me that it’s difficult for her to orgasm. I trusted her. The date was fine. She wrote a note thanking my wife for allowing me to play with her. I do hope to see her again.

—

My previous #2 dumped me. There was a nice woman who was into submission. She wanted me to call her “bitch”, “cunt”, “slut” and slap and choke her. We’d played four times. I liked her, but she wasn’t great at communicating. We had plans to meet next week, but she emailed me yesterday to tell me that she’s taking time to work on herself. It was a nice email, and she said that she would like to see me again some in the future, but for now we’re on hiatus. 

Worlds Almost Collide - Nearest Miss Possible

It’s Sunday morning, and something happened last night. But first, a little backstory.

A year ago my wife and I were in Phoenix visiting extended family. The two of us were at a restaurant and we struck up a conversation with our attractive waitress. We left her our contact information. 

Two months ago, the waitress contacted us, and we made plans to meet up in Vegas. We met up with her in Vegas and had blisteringly hot sex—a very memorable experience. 

Flash forward to the present time. On Friday night, two days ago, we flew to Phoenix where we currently are. The reason for our visit was to meet our oldest son’s fiancee for the first time. We were also meeting her parents for the first time. 

Reservations were made for the six of us at a restaurant that we’d never been to before, which the girl’s parents eat at often. We met our son and his sweet fiancee at the restaurant along with her parents. Our son is very Mormon, as is his fiancee and her parents. They are very sweet people and just as Mormon as you can imagine. (We still look Mormon, and we know how to play the role, but we aren’t church-goers any more. Our son has suspected that we’re sexually liberal, but he doesn’t know that we’re non-monogamous, and we certainly don’t want that to become a topic of conversation at this dinner with his girlfriend’s parents. [Have you seen “Meet the Fockers”, and can you guess where this is going?)

We got seated at a large table and had polite dinner conversation as we all got to know one another. All was going well. As we were finishing our meal and waiting for the plates to be cleared, I felt my wife’s hand on my thigh, squeezing it with enough force to pulverize my femur. I quickly looked at her face to see that she was fixated on something behind me. I whipped my head around to see “the waitress”. Yes, THE waitress from who I banged in Vegas just a couple of months ago—the waitress who we hadn’t known had left that previous restaurant across town and was now looking down at us smiling. My face was just inches from hers. She beamed at her also sudden surprise to see us. “Hi!” she said. I smiled back through panic and gulped out a weak, “Hi.” She said, “How are you?” I replied without thinking “Good.” I then had the reflex to suddenly look down and away from her to sneak a glance as my son’s eyes to see if he was cognizant of this encounter. It didn’t look like he was. I was hoping that at best, his subconsciousness was only registering a social pleasantry between me an a service worker rather than me reconnecting with a hot chick who’d left scratch marks and bite on me recently.

My wife loosened the grip on my leg enough to allow the blood-flow to return to my foot, and we tried to show our future in-laws that we were interested in whatever it was that they were saying while we totally ignore the sweet waitress who was trying to have a pleasant social interaction with us. My wife and I stole a panicked sideways look at each other, hoping that this wasn’t happening, but it was. At some point in the next few seconds, the waitress was gone. Phew! I slyly pulled out my phone, put it in my lap under the table and texted the waitress the details about what was going on, hoping that she’d see it before coming back to our table. 

She didn’t get the text in time. She came back and cleared the dishes while making pleasant chit-chat with everyone else at the table, “How was it? Can I get that plate from you? . . .” All the while my wife and I just silently stared at our own navels.

Once the table was cleared, we quickly got up keeping our backs to the kitchen as we gestured for the rest of the group to follow us out. We probably said some kind goodbyes to our son, his future-wife, and her parents, but we don’t remember. 

My wife and I hustled over to our rental car and jumped in. Once the door was shut, my wife yelled out laughing, “What the fuck just happened!?” We slumped down in the seats recoiling with laughter and shock.

I looked at my phone again to see that the waitress had now replied to my text. I again apologized profusely for totally ignoring her, but that we didn’t want to have our first encounter with the future in-laws to result in us being ostracized by discovering that we’re swingers and we constantly run into people with whom we’ve had sex. She got a good laugh out of it too, and she said she totally understands and that she hoped she didn’t out us. I told her that everything was fine, and that it would make a great story one day. That day is today. 

Joe is Jealous!

This is Christy. Joe is jealous, and we both love it!

A couple of weeks ago I went to a conference for work. Joe came with me. The keynote speaker, Conner, was someone who I admired and who I’d heard speak before. He’s an author and professional speaker. He’s an expert in his field, and he speaks well about interpersonal relationships. We sat in the audience hoping that I may get a chance to talk to him during the weekend. 

After his first lecture, I made it a point to try to talk to him. I introduced myself to him, and he actually knew who I was from my work. We talked for a long time. Joe joined in the conversation. The next day, Conner asked to sit with me and Joe at dinner. We talked for a while. Joe went to the restroom, and Conner and I moved outside to the lawn to keep talking. We sat close to each other on a bench. I shared my experience with my faith transition. I learned that he was non monogamous. (I actually knew that before talking to him.) I told him that Joe and I had a “flexible” marriage. Joe found us and encouraged us to keep talking. Joe sat a ways off to allow Conner and I to talk in private. 

After a while, Conner and I walked to Joe, and I told him that Conner and I were going to go to his hotel room to have sex and that Joe was invited. Joe was very happy for me. Joe assured both me and Conner that he’d be happiest letting me having my alone time with Conner. 

We went up to Conner’s room and got undressed. He was a complete gentleman. Having had all those pre-conversations really let me know that I’d be comfortable, and I really was. 

He explained his STD testing history. He had recent papers. He explained that he always plays with protection including for oral sex. He even uses gloves if fingering a woman. He was very sweet and almost professional in his concern. It was really nice. 

He asked if he could kiss me head to toe. Then he did. He then turned me over and did it all again. So nice. I then asked him what he’s like me to do to him. He asked if I’d kiss him head to toe also, so I did. 

He then got a condom on, and I gave him oral sex. We then had sex in at least three positions I could remember: cowgirl, missionary, and him sitting up. I came at least four times. It was so hot and sensual. He had previously told me that he doesn’t cum often during sex due to a medication he takes, so I shouldn’t be concerned if he doesn’t. But he did! He came. I felt pretty good about that. 

We got dressed and took the elevator back down to the lobby to see Joe smiling. We’d been gone an hour.

Joe, Connor and I talked for a while. Joe joked that he was going to “take a swing” at Conner when we came back to the lobby while yelling “how dare you fuck my wife!”, but he didn’t know Conner well enough to ensure that he’d know he was joking. Joe told Conner that on a scale of 0-10, he felt jealousy of a “1”. It was the first time that Joe has EVER felt jealousy toward me. Joe said that he actually liked the feeling because it allowed him to understand how I often feel. Joe told Conner that it was more like “envy” because he was envious that I was able to have a new experience. I was very pleased with the experience. 

Since coming home from the conference, Conner has been texting me frequently. I really enjoy it. Joe is VERY attractive and I love his body and mind. Conner doesn’t hold a candle to Joe’s physique or intelligence, but Conner is very articulate and sensitive. It’s been very flattering that he’s taken a liking to me. He lives in LA and has invited me/us to come visit him. Joe says that I can go whenever I’d like. (Given that Joe’s going to go play with his GF, that’s only fair.)

I love Joe so much. I love our marriage. I love that Joe understands me. He loves that he’s able to experience a new feeling. Maybe he’ll write about it from his perspective. 

Sex in Paris and Beyond

We’re in Amsterdam! Christy has been in Noisy-le-Sec just outside of Paris for the past three weeks doing training for her company. I was able to fly over for a long weekend, so we snuck away on a train to Amsterdam to get into mischief. (We told her coworkers that we’re visiting my old missionary companion in Rotterdam. Shhhh. I don’t have an old mission companion in Rotterdam.)

We arrived at the train station and made our way to the hotel which was right across from the station. I’d overcome (for the most part) much of the jet lag since I’d slept on the plane and train. It was late afternoon on Friday at this point. We unpacked our few things, got changed, and then caught an Uber to take us to a sex club called Fun4Two. It’s actually closer to Rotterdam. It was about a 50-minute ride there. We got there at about 10:30 pm. It’s a huge mansion that appear to have been totally gutted in 1995 and rebuilt into a sex club. The front of the house has windows that you can see into and it looks like the quarters for the on-site manager. The side entrance is the main entrance to the club. We went in, paid the fee, got the orientation speech, and were directed upstairs to the lockers. There were probably about 100 other people there also changing into their outfit for the evening. Women were changing into the sexiest of lingerie or going topless and the men were getting down to their briefs. Most people kept shoes or sandals on. I didn’t come prepared, so I went barefoot. Christy had a couple of options: sexy bra and crotchless panties, or a negligee set. Both were smoking hot! We were nervous because it was new and busy and everyone else seemed to know the system. We heard a few people speaking English, most with a British accent, everyone else was speaking languages we didn’t understand, but we’re pretty sure we parsed out at least 5 different foreign languages. The average age was probably about 40. A few younger, an few older. 95% of the people were very sexy. It was by far, the sexiest group of swingers we’d ever seen. Only the White Party in Vegas was comparable in the degree of hotness. 

Downstairs was the main bar and dance floor. Drinks and food are included in the price. They had a buffet dinner. We’ve seen food in strip clubs and sex clubs before. This food was good. Really good! The whole place was amazing. You’ve got to look up the website. It had three floors, balconies, a chandelier, crawl spaces, a very swanky indoor pool, at least two bars, a tunnel into a tantra section with multiple levels, lots of narrow staircases that go to all sorts of dark sexy places. There was a red-light district recreated neighborhood, and you could go inside all the “buildings” to play. The whole place was crawling with sexiness. It was like a fun-house/play-ground version of Eyes Wide Shut. (The staircases would never have passed code in the US.)

The downside was that it was hard to meet people, which really may be our deficit rather than the club’s. After exploring every corner of the club, we decided to go into the room with the GYN-like chair. Christy climbed up on it and laid back. I took her panties off and fingered her until she came a few times. A vibrator hung from the ceiling which I used on her too. I fucked her with my cock for a minute also, then I slid down to sit on the built-in stool with a back support that made it VERY comfortable for me to give her oral sex. The position was perfect for both of us. I could have “dined” there for an hour! The room had peep-holes, so people were able to see in, but we couldn’t see them well enough. (Christy likes to be watched.) So we moved out to the balcony looking over the dance floor. The large crystal chandelier hung in front of us. She leaned against the balcony and I fucked her pussy from behind for all to see. It didn’t take long for me to cum. We then cleaned up and were headed to the locker room when she decided that she wanted to get done a few more times. She got her vibrator out of the locker and we found a couch in a high-traffic area, I sat by her side, fingered her and used the vibrator on her until she came hard over and over. Once she was well satisfied, we returned to the locker room, got dressed, chatted with another couple who were Americans living in Germany, then we took a Taxi back to Amsterdam.

We slept in the next day. Obviously. We got up and explored the Red Light District. Prostitution is legal. The women stand behind a glass door and if you want to have sex with them, you approach the door. She opens the door and you discuss the prices and the details about what you want her to do. Before doing anything like that, we went to see a sex show. We paid 40 Euro each to go into a little theater with a little stage. Porn was playing on a projection TV. The curtains closed, then when they opened, a reasonable attractive woman was on the stage. She stripped to music then used a vibrator on herself. It was moderately arousing, but very obvious that she was acting the part. She was a good actor, but we all knew that she was faking (just like in porn.) The curtains closed then opened to a couple: male and female. He was built. She was less attractive. They had foreplay and then had sex: missionary position, then doggy style. He didn’t cum. The curtains closed. The curtains then opened to a woman who stripped to music and reveled a string of beads in her pussy. She pulled them out playfully. It was erotic, but less so that what you’d see in porn. The whole show was like watching grade B- porn in real life. 

We then walked the streets and the alleys looking in the windows at the women. Christy allowed me to hire one. (I’d read about what to expect for prices.) Many of the women were smokers and their skin reflected it, even though most didn’t look to be over 35 years of age. Even the younger ones look aged due to a “rough life”. We walked the length of the street then I decided on the woman in the pink outfit. We walked back to her, I gestured to her, she opened the door. I asked, “How much?” She said “50 for blow job.” I said, “How much for sex?” She said “100 Euro.” I declined and we walked away. All the websites said to expect to pay 50 for a blow job OR sex. 100 for both. Christy told me that I could have paid the 100, but I said that I thought it was too much.  

The next day was Sunday. I was regretting not having sex with a prostitute. Christy said that we could go back. I told her that I really wanted her to pick out the woman and that I wanted her to decide if she wanted to come in with me or not. She said that she was fine not coming in. I wanted HER to decide what made her feel the best. We walked the length of the windows. Many of the women from the previous day weren’t out, and there were some new ones. We walked past a couple of windows and a woman behind one aggreesivily and eagerly called out to us. We walked past a few more windows, then  we both new that we wanted to go back to that aggressive woman. She was sexy! She looked to be about 35, wearing a green scantily-clad swimsuit. She opened the door and she asked if it was for just me or both of us. Christy said that it was for both of us. (She whispered to me that she was cold and that was a driving reason for going in with me. The other was because she was turned on. If it wasn’t so cold, I think she would have waited outside. I’m glad she came in. The woman said her name was Tatiana. She said $100 for basic and includes blow job. She said 150 for the both of us, but the women only touch each other. No oral. We agreed. She lead us up the stairs and warned us about the low ceiling on the stairs to not hit our head. Each woman has a glass door facing the street and a back bedroom either on the ground floor or a floor above. The “bed” in her room was vinyl with a polished wooden ledge that was about six-inches wide, and it had a roll of paper on it from the wall like on the tables from the doctor’s office. There was also a bidet in the room. It was dark and nicely decorated. There was a curtain to a back area that was likely where the toilet was and may have been an access to the other women’s rooms. She told us that we pay first. I handed her 150 Euro and said, this is for sex also, right? She said that sex would be an additional 50 Euro. She said it Kindly and even though it didn’t make sense and didn’t really jive with what we understood downstairs, I handed over another 50 euro. She was happy. We wanted a happy hooker. She told us to take off our clothes and hang them on the hooks on the wall. We did. She took off her bottoms and pulled her bikini top to the sides so that her breasts were fully exposed. She said, “First blow job. Lay down.” I did. She said, “First we put on condom.” You can imagine a sexy stern Romanian accent. She had long brown hair and an perfect porn star body. I wasn’t yet fully erect, yet she was able to easily get a condom on me and suck me hard. She was careful (for her protection) to ensure that her mouth only made contact with the condom. Christy stood next to the bed naked while I fingered her while I was getting the blow job. Christy was moaning. I then said to Tatiana, “Can we have sex now?” (I think I’d only been getting a blow job for about 90 seconds.) She said, “Of course. You want doggy style.” I said, “Can we do it with you laying down?” I wasn’t sure if “missionary position” was universally understood. She said, “Regular? Ya!” She laid down on the paper, she used her fingers to open her vulva and I gently thrusted into her. I got my face down next to hers and I started rhythmically thrusting into her. I knew that prostitutes don’t allow kissing, so I didn’t get my mouth near hers. I also didn’t now if I was allowed to suck her tits, so I didn’t try. I kept pounding harder and harder. (Christy likes it very hard, and I’m sure that a prostitute is accustomed to being fucked VERY hard, but I didn’t want to be abusive, so I didn’t go as hard as I would have liked. Tatiana moaned a few times in the right way and the right times, but logically I knew she had to be faking it. But she faked it well. Christy played with her tits and Tatiana played with Christy’s tits as Christy knelt on the bed next to us. Christy commented on how perfect her tits were. I got close to cuming a few times, but after the third near-miss, I asked her if I could fuck my wife. (I think that we screwed for about 3 minutes. Christy said that it was 5 minutes.) She said of course. Christy and Tatiana changed places. I pulled the condom off and entered Christy. Cristy and Tatiana played with each others boobs, I pounded Christy and came in about a minute. My grunts made it clear to all that I was satisfied. I knew that Christy was satisfied also. Tatiana yelled “Bingo! Everyone happy?” I said, “Yes, very happy.” We got up and got dressed. Christy then complemented her on her body and asked where she was from. She said Romania which matched her accent. She said that she was married and has two children. Christy told her that she looked great for having had two children. Tatiana asked Christy, “So you don’t get jealous when your husband having sex with another woman?” Christy smiled and said, “Nope!” Tatiana said, “Even though I do this, if my husband with another woman it would make me jealous. I no could do it.” We got dressed and I said, “Thank you. It was very good,” even though I’ve had MUCH better sexual experiences with women that I didn’t pay for sex. (This was the first time that I’ve ever paid for sex. Christy has done it three times in the past in Vegas. I was present for all of those experiences, but I just watched. This was probably the least expensive. We’re not good at negotiating in these situations.) Tatiana reminded us to watch our heads on the way down the narrow stairs. We walked out the door as people watched us. They all knew what we’d done. We smiled and were happy that they all knew it.

First REAL Date

Joe here. I think I’ve taken over permanently as the voice of this blog. I know that a lot of the male readers won’t like that. They want to hear Christy’s sultry “voice”, but alas, it’s me now. I’ll try to be balanced in my reporting. But since this experience is mine, you get to hear from me now.

I went on a date today. It was a real date--the first date with a woman since Christy and I were married. If you look over the past year, you’ll see times when I’ve gone and had sex with women alone, but I wouldn’t call those dates. In those other situations, those were planned sex experiences where the woman and I had texted A LOT in advance and it was VERY clear what would happen. This date today was picking a woman up at her door, taking her out to eat at a restaurant, and not being sure that we’d have sex afterward. I was nervous! What should I wear? Do I have chapstick? (I also wanted to try to have an actual get-to-know-you conversation. I didn't want to just conform myself to her desires to get into her pants. I wanted to say, "This is me. If you don't like me, then let's not pursue this." I wanted to actually have someone see me for who I am. This means that I've had to work on figuring out who I am.)

Let me back up and tell you that I’ve already had sex with this woman. We had sex at a party many months ago after meeting each other 15 minutes prior and exchanging two sentences. It was awesome sex. See the entry from Nov 2017. It's Bambi. Then, a month after that, Christy and I went out to dinner with her and her husband.

Since then, I’d tried to arrange for another opportunity to be with Bambi, but it just didn’t happen. Her menses, their travel, and other excuses kept coming up. I probably should have seen the clues that this woman wasn’t really into me. I then said on Wednesday, “Want to go out this Saturday or Sunday?” I figured that would give her a 48-hour window to choose from. On Thursday she said she couldn’t on Saturday but she’d ask her husband about Sunday. I heard nothing. Then on Saturday night when she texted and said, “I can’t on Sunday.” I thought, "Great, you tell me the night before that you can’t go out tomorrow? OK, we’re done. I’ve wasted too much time caring." She then says, “Some other time?” I’m thinking, "Seriously, I’m going to keep doing this?" But I'm a guy, so I say, “How about Tuesday at lunch?” She says yes. I say “11 am. . . “

Tuesday comes. At 9 am she texts to tell me that the school called to say that her son is sick and that she needs to go pick him up. OK. I’m done. Really done. I say, “No problem. That’s life.” And I’m ready to delete all record of her. Wouldn’t you at this point? I mean, come on!

Five minutes later she replies with a picture of her and her son in the car. (I zoomed in to see if I could tell if it’s a doctored photo. Is that her current hair color or is that an old photo?) Then she texts me to tell me that her husband offered to come home from work to watch their son so that she could go out with me. Holy Smokes! Yes! What an awesome husband. What other husband would leave work to come home and sit with their sick son so that his wife could go out with a guy? He deserves the Man-of-the-Year Award.

I went over and picked her up. Because her husband only had a couple of hours free, we didn’t have time for both sex and lunch. Being a gentleman, I said, “Let’s have lunch”. I think I made the right choice. I actually did want to get to know her better. I also wanted to show her that I'm more interested in her than just for sex. We had a nice lunch and we talked all about our interest in non-monogamy, our relationship rules, and our desires. It was a great conversation. I've never been so direct and bold and genuine with a woman whom I barely knew.

Afterward I came home, and Christy asked me “How many times did you orgasm.” I said “Zero. We didn’t have sex.” She said, "Wait, what?!! Why?"

Christy and I then had one of the best conversations we’ve ever had. I did most of the talking. I told her all the things that Bambi and I talked about on our date and how I put Christy’s desires first. I made it very clear to Bambi what the situation would be and how to go forward. I knew that I could be torpedoing the relationship, but the more I talked and the more concrete I was, the more Bambi agreed with me. It felt like the start of something wonderful. This situation has the possibility of being a very good one. It’s going to be a question of how much time we are all willing to commit to the relationships. But let's cross our fingers that we can make the six relationships work: M1F1, M1F2, M2F1, M2F2, F1F2, M1M2. In a simple monogamous relationship there's only one relationship: M1F1. When you have four people, there are six relationships. The odds that they'll ALL be good is SO unlikely and will require a LOT of work. 

Secret is Safe

So far, no one (other than one person a couple of years ago) has determined our true identity. Looks like all the back-doors are locked down.

We've been quiet for the past 6 weeks because we took a break from non-monogamy. We wanted to focus on family and each other for the holidays. We'll get back to the swing of things soon enough.

Press forward slutty saints!

Would you like to play a game?

First, I don’t want to be publicly outer/exposed. No doxxing me. OK?

Here’s the game. See if you can figure out who I really am. This isn’t a “guessing game.” You can’t just randomly guess; you need to see if you can use your sleuthing, blood-hound skills to determine of there are internet crumbs that lead you to discover my identity. 

If you’ve found a path to discovering who I am, email me at ChristyBA75@gmail.com and tell me (1) who I am, and (2) how you discovered it.

A couple of years ago there was a glitch in an app that linked two accounts that I had: one with my name as Christy and one with my real name. Someone figured it out and emailed me. Thankfully he didn’t publicly out me. (Thanks again if you’re reading this.) He knows my real name. He’s assured me that he hasn’t and won’t disclose it publicly, and I appreciate that. Within an hour of him notifying me, I deleted the accounts from that app and deleted the app, but I'm curious if there are other clues out there.

Under my real name, I MAY start coming out of the closet, but I doubt that I’ll ever associate my real name with my pseudonym. What you may discover over the next few years is that I post here a bit less and that “someone else” starts posting things elsewhere on the internet about their sexual adventures. Also, I’m getting busier with other things, so I’ll be turning over much of the story-telling to my husband, "Joe". He is just as verbose as me and is even more techie.

So, if you’re up for a sleuthing challenge, come find me!  (Just please don’t post how you found me. If you find a good bread-crumb trail, you won’t need me to confirm the truth. You’ll know it. But if you do find an accurate path and you know the truth and email me the info, I will confirm it for you as long as you can make me feel assured that you’ll keep the info private.)

Coming Out to You All?

We’re getting close to coming out of the closet and into the open. As the years go on and as our kids grow and as our church status changes, we have less to lose. Be coming out, we can be more genuine and say what’s on our minds in real life, not just on the internet.

Of course, there are still fears. The biggest one is that something bad may happen as a result of us coming out that we didn’t anticipate: one of us gets fired from our job because our boss learns the truth (very unlikely that he’d care), or that we’ll lose more friends than we thought, or that we lose the mystique of being anonymous, or that our kids resent us (though we're pretty sure they already know what's up with us).

What do you think? Should we come out and say who we are? Why or why not? We'd really like to hear your thoughts.

Party at home - And Bambi

Joe here. 

Every word of this is true, other than the names. 

We had a party here last night with about 40 people. We had met about 16 of them before. The rest were new to us, but we’d seen photos of them (or at least much of their bodies) online. They all knew what kind of party this was, so they came with the same general intentions. Most people don’t look as good as their online pictures, but some look better. Bambi was one of those. We found Mark and Bambi on Feeld, a swinger app. We’d been chatting with them for almost a year and never seemed to be able to meet up with them. I got the feeling that we were more interested in them than they were in us. A few weeks ago, they RSVPd to our party, and then a few days ago they warned us that they probably weren’t going to make it. No surprise. Oh well. Then just a few hours before the party he texted to tell us that they would come. The guests arrived at the appointed hour.  When Mark and Bambi arrived, wow! He was suave and she was tall drop-dead gorgeous. She looked like 35 year-old Maggie Gyllenhaal, but absolutely stunningly gorgeous. She looked like she’s have a French accent, and I was surprised that she didn’t, yet she was eloquent and brought the room to silence upon their entrance. She acted as if she didn’t know how good looking she was. 

After welcoming all the guests and everyone introduced themselves, the event got started. It wasn’t more than two minutes before Bambi approached me and asked if she could kiss me. I was stunned, but quickly said, “Of course” and we stood there making out for a minute. She thanked me and moved on. 15 minutes later, her dress was off and she was walking around in black high heels and a tight black lace swimsuit-like outfit. It was VERY see-through and laced down the front. She approached me again and asked if I’d like to lick her nipples. Of course I said yes, then she asked if she could give me a blow job. She took my hand and walked me to a couch. I admitted to her that I wasn’t quite “ready”. She offered to wait and come back to me, but I didn’t want to miss my chance with her. I sat down on the couch and before I could get my pants down to my knees, I was good and ready. Oh she was good at it. She knew all the classic BJ moves. She didn’t miss a thing. It was only about two minutes, but it was awesome! She then moved on to elsewhere in the party.

By this time, most everyone at the party was either naked or just down to their undies. My wife was in an adjacent room getting fucked. I walked in and she was climbing on her second guy and having a great time. So I went back to see what Bambi was doing. I saw her and another attractive woman, Rebecca , kneeling side-by-side giving Steve a blow job. Steve’s wife, Amy, was behind Bambi rubbing up on Bambi and Rebecca. I sat in a chair close by watching and hoping that if Bambi looked around for something to do next that she’s pick me again. But I didn’t want to appear to eager. I didn’t want her to be creeped out by me being a stalker, so I just sat back. Bambi, Rebecca and Amy were all kneeling on the floor naked and were making out and fingering one another. It was so tempting to want to reach in. Some women are open to having someone just join in, some women aren’t. I, and most men, are’t good at reading signs, so it’s best for us to wait for an explicit invitation. 

Bambi laid back on the floor with her head right next to my chair. Amy was going down on her licking Bambi’s pussy. Bambi was moaning with delight. When he eyes opened, she saw me and reached up to me. Her hand went to my knee and then to my crotch. I took that as an invitation to kneel down and kiss her. I then sucked on her tits and she pulled down my boxers and gave me a blow job while Amy licked her clit. Bambi then whispered, “fuck me”.

Oh yes!

Bambi told Amy, “He’s going to fuck me”. That was Bambi’s nice way of telling Amy that she needed to move aside. I grabbed a condom and put it on so fast, and thrust inside her. Oh yes! I kissed her and told her that she was beautiful and gorgeous. I said her name out loud. (I read somewhere that women like that. I hope it’s generally true.) I’m 99% confident that she was having orgasms. I could have taken my time to tease and play with her and build up over the next few minutes to hours, but I didn’t know if I’d get another chance with her. And I knew that I wasn’t saving myself for anyone else that evening, so I let it all go. I came hard, and I pounded in her. And she came hard. It was AMAZING! 

Once we both started coming down, I backed out and smiled at her and thanked her by name. I said, “I hope I didn’t give you too bad a rug burn.” She said, “Not too bad.” I helped her up, then grabbed a tissue to remove the condom and deposit it into a trash can. I put my shorts back on and got something to rehydrate me. A perm-grin was on my face for a long time after that. 

I didn’t hover over her for the rest of the evening, but I did pass her frequently and smiled at her. I talked with her husband a couple of times for a while about our professional lives, and I conversed with her about her life. From what I noticed, she only had sex with me and her husband that night. If she did have sex with someone else, I’m sure it wasn’t with anyone before me.

After the party, I texted Mark and thanked them for coming and told them that we wanted to meet up with them again. He said that they’d like that also. I need to be careful that I don’t get stalker-is. I fear that I have a tendency to do that. But I also want them to know that we’re really into them. 

—

Oh, also at the end of the party, I also had sex with Brandy. (See previous entries if you don’t know who Brandy is.) And if you think that the names Brandy and Bambi are too similar or too stripper-like, just know that we pick pseudonyms that are related to their real names—makes it easier for us to keep track.

I just realized that I didn’t mention that I drove to Brandy’s place two weeks ago, had dinner with her and her husband and their kids (weird). Then Brandy and I went to a hotel room (with our spouses’ knowledge and consent) and Brandy and I had sex for a few hours. I came twice. Then I drove her back home. The sex was good. Brandy things we have great chemistry. I’m not so sure. She’s really into me. My wife is jealous about the whole thing and doesn’t really like it, but doesn’t know why. Brandy tells me that I’m very attractive. I don’t see it, and it almost makes me uncomfortable. She stares at me very seductively (or maybe a bit stalker-ish.) 

—

Tonight I told my wife that I had sex with Brandy at the end of the party. She didn’t know that. That made my wife jealous. She doesn’t know why. She says that I didn’t do anything wrong. Brandy wasn’t off limits at the party. My wife said that she should have been jealous of me having sex with Bambi since Bambi is movie-star gorgeous, but my wife wasn’t jealous of that. Christy couldn’t explain the reasons for the disparity in the jealousy, and I’ve learned to not push her to find reasons for her feelings. 

Time for bed.

Truth

This is Joe.

I’m being a bit raw and open here. Meaning that I’m admitting things that I don’t think are flattering of me. As I age, I’m trying/wanting to be more genuine. As the facade of the old LDS me drops away, I’m trying to discover who I really am and who I want to be as a person. I rarely like the real me that it’s in the mirror. My wife tells me that she wants the truth, but I don’t know if I want the truth.

The truth is that she fulfills the majority of my desires from any one person, but she doesn’t fulfill all. No one person possible could. However she was raised to (falsely) believe that a wife should be EVERYTHING to her husband and that he should want for nothing from anyone else. She now rationally knows that this is not possible and is a burden that she should have never believed in, but she’s having a hard time breaking herself of that notion, and when she falls back into old ways of thinking she resumes feeling like a failure if I want to have sex with other women. And I do want to have sex with other women. In the last few months, she’s let me have sex with three different women without her being present. And we’re all doing great! (One was with the woman’s husband present.) Christy has told me that I can go have sex with that woman again. That woman invited me to have sex with her next week without her husband present. I checked with her husband and he’s great with it. 

The other challenge is that Christy has a minor disability that occasionally keeps her from being as physically active as she wants to be. It can interfere at unpredictable times. In the past, I felt like she was sometimes using it as an excuse to avoid uncomfortable situations, and I feel bad for thinking that. (I can’t think of any examples of that happening so it’s probably not true, just my perception.) We were supposed to do something sexy last weekend, but her health got in the way. My challenge has been/is that I not be a mopey sack when that happens. I need to believe that she’s really trying to do her best and that she’s not using it as an excuse. When I mope, she then quietly gets mad and is less willing to accommodate me. We then get into a viscous cycle of digging in. I need to assume she’s doing her best, and I need to accept what she does.

Best Party Ever!! (Ever)

Joe here.

It’s so temping to come out of the closet . . . but not yet. 

What an amazing party last night! 50 people in an amazing hotel suite! Everyone was having a great time. Love and life was flowing. Everyone was kind and generous and fucking (amazing)! Christy had sex with three different guys plus me, plus a guy who tried but could get hard again fast enough after finishing with someone else. All the guys wanted to fuck Christy. She was the life of the party! (That’s my observation.) So many nice hot people. One couple brought two vanilla couples who just watched and who tried not to be scared. Everyone was nice to them. Christy helped a newbie couple come out of their shell and had some play time with them in a threesome to let them experience some things they’d never done before. It was almost like watching a therapy session for a couple who was already doing great! I had sex with two women in addition to Christy, and I got tons of blow jobs and made out with a lot of women and sucked a bunch of tits and got mine licked too. It was an incredible evening!

The best were the complements from the attendees! They were so complementary to us! There were a couple of “celebrity” swinger couples there who had been on Playboy TV—one of whom are considered to be the king and queen (in our opinion) of swingers—totally hot and awesome couple! They said and wrote some of the nicest things to us about the experience. It put us on top of the world 

This is a hodgepodge of thought during a visit by Brittany to our home. Written all by Joe.

----

I need to write a bit about what love is, and I need to do it while I’m thinking like this.

Christy is letting me have sex with another woman staying in our home. This woman is really into sex and and is attracted to me. She likes having sex. She is a nice, caring person. She is reasonable attractive. She has many good qualities. I am attracted to her.

But what I feel for Christy is 10,000x more. Christy is so much more to me. And I feel that. I really feel that. If I were to list all the reasons why I love Christy, I could list tons, but it still wouldn’t explain on paper what she is to me. I actually feel something very powerful toward her. I wish I could be analytical and explain what that is, but I can’t. I could try, and I’d be able to explain part of it. I could explain all the ties we have to each other, but that wouldn’t suffice. The feeling is powerful and I wish I could elucidate on it; however it’s a feeling, and I’m not good at describing feelings. That’s why I need to write this now. I want to write this in the moments that I’m feeling it so strong. I want to remember what this is like. I want to never forget this feeling. Christy is everything to me. She is perfect even when she’s not. Even in saying that, it’s descriptive and fails to explain that I mean. I just need to say that this is what love is. What I feel now is true love.

—

My wife and I have been swingers for the last five years. Mostly it's same-room full swap. Occasionally we've each been on a couple of solo dates. I have zero jealousy. She has some jealousy. She knows that it's not rational jealousy, and we both know (more or less) what triggers her jealousy.

I know (for the most part) what upsets her. For example, I need to not go have sex with a woman without clearing it with her first. She doesn't want me to get heavily emotionally involved with another woman via text/chat. Yesterday I said, "I appreciate that you've allowed me the privacy of not looking at my phone." She said, "Is there something on there I should see?" I said, "no." She said, "Good, because I really don't want to know." -- I do fear that if she read my phone, she might think that I've crossed her line a few times by getting too close to other women. But in general, my wife takes the approach of saying, "Don't cross the line, but if you do, I don't want to know. You haven't crossed the line have you? No? Good, but I don't want to know if you have, but I hope you haven't."

Personally I don't think it's a good idea for someone to willfully choose to be ignorant, but that's what's she wants to be. To some degree, I understand because she does have momentary flights of jealousy, so she doesn't see a reason to open herself to be triggered. Also, the "lines" aren't very well defined in some cases. Getting "too close" emotionally may mean something different to her than to me. What I may think is ok may set her off, so we agree to keep her out of the loop on some things.

The problem I'm having with all this is that I fear that one day she will reverse her decision to read/see everything, and then she'll decide that I've been crossing her line for all this time. The only way for me to know that I'm in safe territory is to show her now, but she doesn't want to see.

When I want to address specifics, she tells me that I'm too OCD and that I'm trying to address every possible scenario, which she says is impossible to predict. She just says, use common sense.

Next morning…

We had a good, long talk. We defined poly for us. She understood. I explained that I want her to always fill 95% of my desires, and that others will likely not fill more than 5%. I explained that her remaining ignorant wasn't helpful to me, that I need her to let me know when her desires aren't being met. I think things are good.

I do develop feelings to some degree for the person I'm sleeping with. I think I am poly by nature. My wife does say, "be loving to me", "be present", "spend time", but she also says, "don't text too much". Those are all pretty vague and she is a pleaser, so she doesn't complain until I've gotten really far off tract. She still has ownership mentality a bit, but that’s rooted in our religious upbringing. I have it too, but I’m trying to let go of it and I think that scares her that I’m willing to let go of ownership of her. I try to be supportive of helping her work out her own issues about this without making her feel like she has a problem that needs to be fixed.

Brittany is coming to visit for 3 days. She’ll be here in two hours. Christy is nervous and is cleaning the house. She is accepting but worried. She isn't upset but is quiet. We've talked it all out before. Right now we're quiet. She says that she's "fine". -- I've told Brittany that we can't have sex in the master bed, but everywhere else is fine. Christy doesn't want to see our PDA.

Later first night.

We're all back at our house now. Brittany is in the shower. Christy is headed to bed. Christy said, "Go have fun." I'm waiting for Brittany to get out of the shower, then we'll play. So far so good. (We all went to dinner and had small talk. Christy and Brittany like each other.)

Next morning

Brittany and I had sex in her bed (guest room), then I went back to Christy in the master bedroom and she asked for sex also. Which I happily accommodated. All seems to be OK. We're all up this morning and going to a park together. Christy says she's fine. She's a bit quiet, but says she's fine.

That afternoon

Brittany and I have had sex twice in the guest room since arriving. Once per day. Christy and I have had sex twice also. Christy SEES that I pick her over Brittany, but Christy still feels irrationally threatened. I think that if she could TALK to Brittany about this fear, that she'd work through it, but Christy won't tackle it head on.

Maybe I'm doing "poly" wrong. I don't understand or like the idea of keeping everyone separate.

Am I supposed to say to my wife, "I'm going out. I'll be back in a day or two." That won't fly with her or me. And we're not publicly out of the closet (yet). So no holding hands in public with another woman. Seems best if everyone knows everyone else and all is on the table, rather than living separate relationships. Or maybe I don't understand what poly is?

I posted a question on an online forum about jealousy in this situation, and someone wrote back, “If what she needs right now is to put her head down and avoid conflict while your girlfriend is here, then let her.”

That's exactly what I've told her. I've told her that if she wants to not talk now, that's completely fine. I've also said that I hope that she'll talk to me about her feelings afterward. I've said that if she's NEVER going to be able to talk about her feelings about this visit, then that's not going to work for me, and then I'll need to give up on polyamory. 

—

The visit concluded well. I had sex with Brittany once each day and kissed her and was affectionate to hr a few times each day. I spent a lot of time with Christy having sex and having our usual marriage intimacy conversations and holding and kissing her. The three of us went out a lot during the visit.

For the final play session, I invited Christy to join me and Brittany. She tried, but she was feeling jealousy, so she calmly pulled back from the situation. I sensed it, and it was fine. Brittany had a good orgasm. I didn’t. Later that night, Christy and I played alone and had a great time.

In all, it was a learning experience, and I think everyone had a good time.