Monday, September 5, 2016

How Joe Feels

So how do I feel? In general, very good.

When Christy came back from her romp with Brad, I was indeed concerned about her bleeding. She showed me. But she wasn’t overly concerned. She and I had caused her worse with various sex toys over the years.

I’ve been on an odd train for the past 5+ years. The Odd Sex Train. It’s all laid out here on this blog over the years. Where does it go from here? Who knows. But I know that it’s not as predictable as most people’s life-train. And that’s one reason why I like it. I like that it’s impossible to know where it’s going. If my life were just one 1,000 mile, straight, flat, train ride from beginning to end, I might as well have jumped off at the beginning and rolled in the dirt. 

There is some truth to the idea that I keep wanting more and more when it comes to sex. I want to see how wild a ride we can take without crashing the train. I got very close to doing that about six weeks ago. Not that that was a good thing because she was very close to leaving me, but I now know where the boundary is and why it’s there. I now know that the boundary isn’t necessarily sex but is my failure to disclose about sex/drugs/money/etc. She wants honesty.

I mark yesterday as a landmark day in our lives. I remember the day when we first went to a strip club (Sapphire) in Las Vegas and she got a VIP lap dance from an experienced stripper and had an orgasm. That was the first day that I’d ever been in a strip club in my life. I remember the day that we first had oral sex from another person, and the day that we had sex with other people, and the day that we hosted our first sex party, and the day that I kissed a woman without my wife present (but she knew about it in advance). Yesterday was a momentous day, and we both knew it because we were both anxious about the build-up to it. That anxiety is a rush! And other than the penis-size issue, it worked out just as expected and couldn’t have been better for both of us.

As we debriefed (mentally) with each other last night, I said that I didn’t want to go to sleep because it’s like it’s Christmas day, and if I go to sleep then when I wake up it won’t be the same day. We also talked about how sexual escapades like this can’t be equally mirrored. If we had done the exact same thing but in the opposite roles, there’s no way that Christy would have wanted me to do the same thing, and I know that and accept that. We both inherited our roles from the society we were raised in and live in. And we have to play by the rules of society because that’s what we live in. I said that it wouldn’t work to do a reversal, to have me try to pick up on a woman. I know how single guys look to women online. I know how I’d look. Christy was kindly dismissive of my self-deprecation, but we both know that a reversed situation wouldn’t have turned out as well for either of us. As we laid in bed last night we briefly discussed the concept of me trying to pick up on a woman at a bar. I’ve NEVER even considered doing this in my entire life. I’d seen it done in movies hundreds of times, but I’ve never even been in a position where that would be possible, and I know that movies are fake and that women wouldn’t respond to me unless I were one of those actors and we were both following the script. I told Christy this. She was again kindly dismissive. I followed with, “and I know that you wouldn’t want to stand there and watch me do that, because that’s the only way that I could dare try it, is if I knew that you were there and supporting it.” She said that if we were to try it that we’d have to do it in Vegas rather than in our home town. I replied, “Do you worry that we’re going to inadvertently pick up on the bishop or his wife in our local bar?” The conversation topic trailed off.

I then joked with her about introducing her new boyfriend to her colleagues at work and bringing a “plus two” to the Christmas party. In the last 48 hours, I referred to Brad as her “boyfriend”, and Christy smiled but didn’t dislike the term, even if it were too soon to embrace it. Even during all of this, I kept up on replying to a couple of emails from the runners-up from Friday night. If it turns out that Brad isn’t a good “fit” for Christy, then she and I agree that she’d be open to trying it with another guy, but I think that other than penis size, she got very lucky with Brad. He seems super awesome and kind and real. My guess is that most of the alternative wouldn’t have worked out as well. But now that she’s had a success, she may be willing to tolerate a failure.

The Closet

We went out to dinner, just the two of us, last night. (Yes, again on a Sunday.) And she even had a beer. (Yep, alcohol is something new we’re trying.) We don’t like most of the taste nor the calories, but we enjoy the feeling and the ‘naughtiness” of it. As we looked around, we both said that we really do feel good about where our lives are going. We do feel like we’re in control and we feel no shame or guilt or evil or sin. We just feel happy. But we do feel a bit worried. Our worry is about if we fall out of the closet. (We felt safe about having a beer in public on a Sunday. Who would see us and report us?) We know there’s some risk. Christy is more concerned about us being outed than I am. She is worried how some of our children may react. (Beer and missing church is one thing. Swinger celebrities is another.) As a side note, it’s interesting how well “transitioning mormons” can tolerate and support each other’s drinking, smoking, swearing, sleeveless dresses, and pre-marital sex; but they really seem to detest swinging. Just look at Reddit. Christy had to delete her recent post on the ex-mormon subreddit. But when we do stumble upon other LDS swingers, they, like us, do claim/blame that the church had/has a major role in their swinging.

Anyway, back to the story. Christy is worried about coming out of the closet because of how kids may respond. I think it would have a major shift in their respect for us. They probably wouldn’t understand, and kids shouldn’t have to deal with their parents’ sexuality. The other issue is work. We’re both well placed in our careers, and our mormonism is known at work: more for her than for me. For her, her mormonism plays a somewhat significant role in her professional work. If it were reveled that she was a swinger, it will have a seismic shift in her work environment. I think she’d recover, but we’d lose friends and ties. So we chose to remain closeted. 

We know a couple, a minor-celebrity swinger couple. They are well-to-do and totally out of the closet. They’ve been out for many years. They run businesses outside of swinging and they don’t/can’t hide their swinger status, and it doesn’t appear to have a negative impact on them. They recently had their first child. It’s no doubt that the child will one day know of his parent’s swinger status. We wish that we were that couple. But we’re not and we can’t be. Until recently, we were hard-core active mormons. And many people think we still are. Our kids are young adults and for the most part they think that we’re socially conservative. We don’t have the luxury of being who we want to be without shocking those who we care about. Maybe we’ll make the transition over time; maybe we’ll slip up and out ourselves inadvertently. But for now, we’ll remain in the closet with just a toe and nose out the door. 


  1. Thank you Joe, that is very helpful to me to understand what you are going through and why mine didn't work as well.

    I don't drink as I'm afraid of alcoholism in my family but my wife has some from time to time. She likes the Pina Coladas at PF Changs. I think anything made with frozen ingredients would do that for her but she has only tried there. Everything else, including wine, tastes like a cleaning chemical or some such to her. I still haven't figured out how she would know what cleaning chemicals taste like.

    I found the exmormons around me to be as closed minded as the TBMs. Sounds like you may be having a better experience there too. We didn't have extra marital sex until a number of years after leaving, in fact, I still haven't. Social media didn't exist then so all we had was word of mouth gatherings that seemed to be bitch about the mos clubs. Though I don't see a need for some Mormon rules in my life, I wasn't particularly bitter or upset at them. Since I live in a county that is 88% Mormon I do have to deal with them and fully understand and support your attitude about being closeted.

  2. I had my first full beer at about 12 years old after spending the day bucking hay. Most alcoholic beverages are and acquired taste. beer runs the gambit from almost no taste at all to very bitter and heavy.
    Mixed drinks... almost everyone start out with soda and sugar syrups with fruit juices. Then as you become addicted to alcohol. You move to less and less mix and more and more alcohol. then just straight booze on ice, then no ice, then just tip the bottle and take a swig.

    Wine is best with a meal .. Again as many flavors and sugar levels as there are varities and wineries. Wines typically have low alcohol content due to fermentation limitations around 12% ( yeast dies so fermentation stops)
    Grocery store beer is 3% most everywhere . Liquor store beer 6-9% most everywhere. Beers above 9% not very common.

    Distilled liquor runs the % from top to bottom. Pure Grain Alcohol (ethanol) can be purchased at chemical supply houses . Liquor store limit is about 95% which is about the distillation azeotrope % for an ethanol/water binary mixture. 95% alcohol tastes like .. Well like fire in your mouth.

    Well i was an alcoholic once...probably still am ...just kicked the habit
    Imlike gin and tonic and margaritas. well i will try anything. Even sam adams beer .., in my opinion .. That stuff is nasty. Way way too much hops.

    back to sex

    i can appreciate adventures, i have had some, But one gets in the game of trying to be more adventurious every time ... Sooner or later you will be trying an orgy on the rim of an erupting volcano.

    I suggest you all mark time for awhile ... Let the lava cool down a bit.

    And yes i agree sooner or later you will be found out .. Just inevitable ...secrets are kept only if the secret never was.

  3. i really googled some ones profile on to find them.ended up here. What a blogg ;-)